By Matt Heinz, President of Heinz Marketing

If you’re not already, I’d love for you to join me live every Thursday at 11:30 a.m. Pacific for an episode of  Sales Pipeline Radio.  It’s just 30 minutes long, fast-paced and full of actionable advice, best practices and more for B2B sales & marketing professionals.

We cover a wide range of topics, with a focus on sales development and inside sales priorities heading into and throughout the year.  You can listen to full recordings of past shows at and subscribe on iTunes.

We were thrilled this last time to be able to talk to Raviv Turner, CEO at CaliberMind.

We entitled this episode:  Data Intelligence 101: The Key to Faster Growth & More Efficient Marketing

We’re talking about Raviv sees a disconnect between Demand (buyers) & Ops (users) of data & analytics platform.

Some highlights:

    • Your data strategy is your B2B growth strategy (quick overview of the paper)
    • Without a clear and concise data-driven marketing strategy, B2B marketers lack the ability to effectively acquire, organize, analyze and translate customer information into actionable insights. But what does an effective B2B data-driven marketing strategy look like?
    • Understanding what needs to be accomplished is the first step in developing an effective data-driven marketing strategy. For B2B data-driven marketers, a top priority is basing more decisions on data analysis.
    • Most Critical Challenges? Integrating data across platforms and enriching data quality and completeness are the most critical challenges to achieving data-driven marketing success
    • Marketing data is a marketing problem! Not devs, not IT – 100% marketing
    • But data is hard, data is not sexy – so marketing is pushing it out – over 90% of B2B marketers outsourcing all or part of data tasks (Ascend2)
    • But high performing marketers are doing the opposite, they license data and analytics tools and train their team to bring data capabilities in house
    • Most of the reasons why marketing can’t prove value and impact are data related, yet we prefer to outsource this – lead qualification, ICP score, account scoring, lead routing are all data problems before they are marketing problems.
    • To be successful with ABM you need – Data, Account Planning, Content, Execution and Measurement – yes ABM is a data challenge not a media challenge..
    • No wonder that marketing and sales ops are spending more than 80% of their time in spreadsheet hell on marketing data wrangling, exporting/ importing, vlookups in Excel what not
    • There is a disconnect between the C/VPs and Ops inside the marketing org – Demand looks at pipeline sourced/ influenced/ ops created – but Ops don’t give a hoot about it, they care about operational efficiency, workflow automation, the data integrity – they want to get out of spreadsheet, but guess what? – most ops don’t have the budget to solve this problem, the biggest budget is demand and that budget mostly goes to programs not to data and analytics – but guess what? Without data and analytics you can’t measure programs, you can’t multi-touch attribution, you can’t track engagement and orchestrate demand between that’s changing, according to Gartner for the first time in 2018 analytics is the biggest spend in Marketing, more than social, more than content – why? Because without data and analytic we are going to see marketers continue to lose their jobs and go home

Matt Heinz:  Thank you everyone for joining us on another episode of Sales Pipeline Radio. Appreciate you joining us. For those of you who are joining us live, we’re a couple minutes late, but we are here as usual every week on Thursday at 11:30 am Pacific, 2:30 pm Eastern. Thanks for those who are joining us live, that join us every week live. I appreciate that very much for those of you joining us on the podcast from the iTunes store, the Google Play, thank you for listening. Thanks for subscribing. And every episode of Sales Pipeline Radio is available past, present, future, on

We, every week, are featuring some of the best and brightest names in B2B sales and marketing. Today is no different. Very, very excited to have with us today Raviv Turner. He’s the CEO of CaliberMind, a company doing some really interesting work in the marketing intelligence space. Raviv thanks very much for joining us today.

Raviv:  Yes, Matt. Thanks for having me.

Matt Heinz:  We recently produced a paper together on how CMOs can lead the revenue revolution and, you know, the focus was on an area that I think a lot of B2B CMOs don’t put nearly enough focus on, but has become very clear to us that it is a direct path to improving revenue attainability and success. Talk a little bit about data strategy and data intelligence and why it’s become so important for B2B marketers and B2B leaders today.

Raviv:  That’s correct Matt and yes, the B2B buying journey has changed a lot in the last few years. We see more buyers and deals, 60% of the journey’s today is digital, before they even pick up the phone or email the sales rep. We see millennials entering the workforce and making decisions. So, everything we know about B2B kind of changed, yet CRMs, marketing, automation platforms kind of stayed the same.

So, what we see the need for, what we call marketing intelligence, which is basically taking automation to the next level. The way we look at this is we democratize marketing and sales data for line of business managers. You no longer need to be data engineer or data scientist to really make sense of data, to be able to acquire new buyers, or revenue, and to improve the customer experience.

The paper we put this together is basically, I think, the next evolution where we see marketing kind of eating sales, and the need for CMOs to prove impact and grow revenue. So not just top of the funnel kind of vanity matrix used to MQL SQL what not. Today’s MQL is closed one and we also think this kind of rippling into post sales, where marketing is now in charge of the full customer lifecycle marketing. And I think that presents a new data challenge. Tradition systems just not able to see all the data between marketing, sales, and even customer success rate.

Matt Heinz:  I think you’re absolutely right. We got demand generation marketers who are thinking in terms of campaigns and channels, and there’s usually a marketing operations team that is focused on the data and analytics. There has been a disconnect, and continues to be a disconnect, between those two groups and why does that exist? I’m curious, what are some keys you see to helping those two groups work together more closely so they can create better conversations, experiences, for their customers and talk about it.

Raviv:  Right. Great question. I think lots of it also depends on the CMOs background. I think for CMOs coming from demand background there is less of a disconnect. They used to operate with data and make data driven decisions. However, some organizations where we see the disconnect is when the CMO is operating on a more strategic level, where the demand and ops teams are more tactical.

And, many of our customers, when we talk to the teams, the demand and ops, they feel like the C-suites and the VPs are not fully aware of what it takes to get the data in shape, what it takes to be able to qualify leads in real time, score accounts. To come back from a marketing event with hundreds of leads and to be able to immediately reach them and all this, what we call the data operation around marketing and sales, that’s not always clear to the C and the VP suites. And they’re looking for the KPIs, they’re looking for the reporting, they’re looking for the analytics and everything, all the strategic tools. But, without solving the foundation of marketing and sales data, that is becoming a much harder task.

We see ops kind of sending the data in what we kind of call, “Spreadsheet Hell.” It’s just pushing data back and forth between their CRMs marketing information and 15-20 other tools. And what we see is we see success with customers that they basically able to streamline the marketing and sales operation and grow revenue much faster this way.

Matt Heinz:  So we’re talking today on Sales Pipeline Radio with Raviv Turner. He is the CEO and founder of CaliberMind. You can check out more about what they are doing at I’m sure ,if you go there at the very top, you’ll see a link to the CMO revenue revolution paper that we wrote together with CaliberMind and good recommendations in there. One of the things we talked about in that paper, Raviv, is the fact that if you connect your data, just having your data connected doesn’t solve the problem. You have to know what data you’re looking for, what use cases, what stories you’re looking for so you can actually connect the dots and have more engaging conversation. So, talk a little about why it’s so important to have your strategy and your customer personas nailed down before you figure out what data is important.

Raviv:  Yep. At CaliberMind we say, “You have to collect the dots before you can connect the dots.” And, we’ve seen marketing teams rushing to build personas and build content strategy and what not. Lots of the work happening right now is qualitative. And don’t get me wrong, I think that the right balances between qualitative and quantitative. But just to go and conduct at bunch of buyer interviews and do buyer personas, maybe even have a discussion on what your ideal customer profile is, is not going to really help to operationalize this. I think what CaliberMind does, it adds another kind of operational level on top of it. Say hey what if we can go back through your data and see what the data tells us about your personas and content model.

But if we can look at all historic data from your wins-loss analysis, look at the accounts, score them, profile them, and build these bottom-up versus top-down. There is no longer, “Hey, I think our personas, or I think our ideal costumer profile is x, y, z.” But, there is a process and validation with the data and once we’re able to support marking teams with, what we say, operationalizing your personas and your content models, then we can, I think, advance into the data science part.

We’ve heard a lot about predictive last few years. I think predictive kind of fell in the past because we just didn’t have all the data in one place. And by having a strong data foundation, were you can see historic data from your CRM, you can see your engagement data from your marketing automation, you might even be able to see some intent signals from some of the intent vendors and see targeting counts outside your database. You’re able to build much more personas in content work, then get into start matching them on a problematic level. Which is which persona, what content, what time, and even what channel? Again, as long as you actually get all the data in one place and that’s the data foundation that CaliberMind provides.

Matt Heinz:  So Let’s talk about the difference between data intelligence and data management. You and I have talked about this a few different times, where I think a lot of companies, when it comes to data management, they’re focused on comprehensive data. They’re kind of focused on the most complete, up to date data. But comprehensiveness isn’t necessarily a direct line towards results. Talk a little bit about that gap, between making companies focused on having the most data and then just making sure you’ve got the right data to take action.

Raviv:  Yes, I mean there is tons of information out there on data management and data cleansing and data hygiene and what not. It’s been there for some time now and we still see companies failing with it. Because of the velocity of the data, because of the companies with high lead volume. That’s got to kind of be real time and streamline. So, what we are seeing in the most progressive, high performing market, is moving from just talking about just data management to data intelligence. Which is, “Hey, if I can have all these processes actually automated in the background, I don’t have to throw ops people at this.” By the way, some costumers just making this IT projects, right? And paying lots and lots of money to try and fix their data with IT Most of the IT data projects we know actually fail because of this.

What if we can have an intelligent system, that can take any lead coming in the door, anonymous website traffic, actually makes sense of it. Clean, deduct, merge, and then go into higher level of working with the data which is the segmentation and the inside. What if we can then feed all your analytics tools, so BI, or become better in attribution by having all this data fixed in real time. That’s what we call data intelligence. That’s where we’re seeing the market kind of heading and what some of the more progressive marketing teams are doing today. Is moving from data management kind of stay in the … I call it the plumbing, right? To the next evolution of, “Hey, we just have a backbone foundation of data integrity and orchestration system, like CaliberMind.” It just takes care of all of these automatically, so we don’t have to worry about it.

Matt Heinz:  We have to take a quick break. Pay some bills and be right back with more with Raviv Turner, he’s the CEO of CaliberMind. Were gonna be talking a little more about data intelligence, talking about how to translate and sort of  make this accessible for companies, and lots more. We’ll be right back on Sales Pipeline Radio.


Matt Heinz:  Appreciate everyone joining us today on Sales Pipeline Radio. Coming up in the next couple of weeks, the next two weeks in fact, we are going to be Tableau heavy. We’ve got Mike Braund. He is the VP of Marketing Operations. Hopefully he’s listening to this call and learning more about data intelligences as well. We’re going to learn a little more about how Mike is managing the marketing tech stack and marketing ops for Tableau as it grows from what was a very small company into a large publicly traded company.

The following week we’ve got his boss, Elissa Fink. She is the CMO of Tableau Software, learning more, as well, about how to grow and how marketing changes and you manage marketing differently for startups versus large companies.

Then the following week we’ve got Dave Gerhardt. He’s the VP of Marketing for Drift. If you haven’t heard of Drift, you’ve got to check out these guys. They are on a mission to eliminate the landing page and increase the conversations that are happening between customers and prospects.

Today, we’ve got a little more time with Raviv Turner. Raviv is the CEO and founder of CaliberMind. You know, Raviv, I think people are looking to this episode so far, managing the data on the backend can get quite tricky, can get quite technical. That might be where we actually lose a lot of CMOs. Is it important for CMOs to really start to understand data ops themselves? Is it okay if they have a trusted counterpart that understands this? I’ve heard some companies talk about actually hiring a chief marketing technology officer, a CMTO, that can really sort of do the work to map strategies and intelligence to data ops on the backend. What are you seeing the most successful B2B CMOs do today?

Raviv:  Yes, and Matt, if we agree about what he’s stating in the paper about the revenue revolution, then your data strategies, your B2B growth strategies. And I think that’s what CMOs are tasked with today. How do we impact revenue, how do we grow sales? And in order to do this that requires some basic foundation of data and automation in place.

Like I said, CMOs coming from the demand background might have easier time. However, it used to be difficult to really make sense of data, where you needed to maybe even hire a team of data engineers and data scientists and build a marketing database. Then bring the BI folks, or the IT folks to build your reports and analytics. That’s no longer the case. So, you have systems like CaliberMind today, that is one click connector, can basically connect your entire marketing and sales stack. Then layer some analytics and reporting on top without even your ops team writing a line of code or even business optics, right?

So, I think technology is helping us to actually close the data skills gap that we’re seeing within marketing organizations. And, some of our customers are also bringing their agencies, you know? Some marketers used to outsource their data integrity and data needs, and that’s perfectly fine.

You have some great agency partners that can actually run the system for you, or we can go and train your team. So, closing the data skills gap with technology, but not just with technology, also with people and processes. I think that’s a big deal, and we’re working on all fronts to close it, not just with technology, but also with our agency partners. Just providing some basic education to marketers on how to go from what we call, “Data zero to data hero.”

Some of it is just best practices, like, “Hey, you’ve gotta use campaigns in your salesforce so you’ve gotta do UTM or tracking so you can come back and attribute and impact and prove value.” That’s a big deal for lots of the CMOs we’re talking to, which is “How do I impact revenue, how do I prove value?”

And again, it keeps coming back to the data foundation and being able to track and report on every marketing activity.

Matt Heinz:  Well, I encourage folks that are listening and want to learn more about this, the B2B CMO revenue revolution definitely go to You’ll see a link at the top to download the executive guide we’re talking about. You can also just go directly to to get this executive guide on B2B CMOs leading the revenue revolution.

I think one of the challenges, Raviv, we’ve talked about a lot is you guys … And every time I talk to you and every time I get into the product I realize just how important data intelligence and how important this approach is. But, it’s an emerging market. This is not a category that had existed before. Talk a little bit about how hard it is, sometimes, to really be a pioneer in a market like this and what are some of the keys you’ve found to helping create greater discovery and to really, sort of challenge the status quo of the customers that need you the most.

Raviv:  Yeah, and I like to say there’s always the kind of gardener’s magic water for that. Then the opportunity might be gone, right? So, you’re right in the sense that it’s early, but we don’t think it’s too early. We’ve seen automation platforms being around for a few years. There are some integration platforms that let ops team actually integrate the data. We’re just taking it to the next level, providing some of the decision making logic and some of the data profiling. So, “Hey, marketing can now make data driven decisions.”

Also, our kind of core group of customers are customers that’s been using automation, both marketing and self-automation, for some time now. So, I want to say, “Hey, we have what, 50-60% of the market already been used to marketing automation for a few years.” And they’re now looking to take this to the next level. The way we think about us fitting in the stacks is, “Hey, we have our CRM as our system of records. We have our marketing automation is a system of engagement. Then what we are missing in order to streamline our marketing and sales and grow revenue is, what we call ‘system of intelligence.'”

Which is, “Hey there is just so much data out there. We used to be data deprived, now I say, ‘Hey, we are data blind.'” Data is not a problem anymore, there’s just too much of it. How do we focus on the data points that matter, you know? To move the metrics and the KPIs for the CMO that matter. Then, it’s no longer enough to mention Tableau. We have some customers using Tableau, it’s a great BI and analytics tool.

But, “Hey, I’m now getting a beautiful report on the dashboard.” Then, “Hey, what if I want to take this and create a segment and go and target key accounts or activate them on some social networks?” That’s not possible to do with the data today and that’s what we’re seeing as the kind of missing layer, which is the more progressive marketers, the more successful marketers, they want to, not just study the data, actually go and act on this data. Use some of the systems like CaliberMind basically lets you put the data to work.

So, yes, it’s early, but we’re already getting some strong adoptions from IT and SaaS. We’ve seen some manufacturing with B2B reads websites. And they just need help with the data.

Matt Heinz:  Sometimes the early opportunities, even if they’re not really early, is those organizations that take advantage of it typically see an even greater competitive advantage. So, we’re seeing that in the market already for companies that are embracing the data intelligence movement and are having a much greater impact for their business. Their marketing is more efficient. They’re impacting revenue in a great way.

I want to thank our guest today, Raviv Turner, the CEO of CaliberMind. Definitely check him out at Download that guide to the B2B CMO revenue revolution.

We’ve gotta run. We’ll be back next week with more from Tableau, more on marketing operations, marketing leadership, and all things around B2B sales and marketing.

Thanks for joining us again on Sales Pipeline Radio.